Balancing Acts: Navigating Relationship Equity with Felicia Kashevaroff

Teresa Hildebrand:
0:44

Hey, my name is Teresa Hildebrand and this is Organized Chaos. We take a deep dive into living with intentionality, focusing on what's important in our lives so we can truly feel our best. It may feel chaotic at times, but with a little organization, the right mindset and a ton of self-love, we can still thrive. Join me as we talk to other busy moms and experts who will share tips and strategies to help you reach your goals. Hope you enjoy this episode of Organized Chaos. Now on to the show. Hey friends, Welcome back to another episode of Organized Chaos.

Teresa Hildebrand:
1:19

Today I have a special guest. Her name is Felicia Kashavirov, and she is a relationship equity coach and the founder of TEN Task, where they combine technology with relationship coaching to create a future where couples tend to each other rather than focus on all their energy on the tasks that life throws our way. In other words, she helps couples to build mutually beneficial, balanced, joyful relationships. Felicia is an ICF certified coach and is trained in a number of modalities, including the Gottman Method, Organization and Relationship Systems Coaching, Small Group Facilitation and Conflict Resolution. But most of all, she's committed to helping couples build the equal partnership of their dreams. So, without further ado, here is Felicia. Let's just get started on this conversation, because we chatted a little bit before this and I got super excited about this topic and I am so glad you're here to share more details about it. But obviously, before we get started, I want to dive into kind of like your origin story, so to speak. Like how did you get to where you are today?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
2:31

Yeah well, first of all, thank you for having me here. I'm also really excited about this conversation, and my path to getting here in this moment in time has been winding, like many entrepreneurs, especially those who are moms. But I started my kind of young professional life. I studied sociology. I've always been really interested in larger social systems and how those social systems impact our everyday lives, and so that's what I studied in undergrad and I had plans to go back to grad school but took a pause to enter the workforce, earned some money and I went into marketing and after a few years of doing that, I met my husband at the time, got married and ended up leaving the workforce for a very extended time to be a stay-at-home mom, and, as you know and many of your listeners know, it's very meaningful and very intense work.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
3:35

What I found is that once I entered into that realm, my husband and I kind of went into this with this notion that we were going to be equal partners. But that shift in our relationship changed the dynamics such that we fell into really traditional gender roles and it was very difficult for me and for both of us to pull ourselves out of that and ultimately ended up destroying my marriage. So, as my marriage was kind of ending and we were pulling that apart, my kids were getting old enough that I was able to kind of go back to the workforce in a really robust way. I started thinking about all the work that I had done over those years and how much I had learned and how efficient I was, and all of the things that I had done weren't relevant to my resume. And so I started talking to other friends and everyone I knew who was in partnered relationships, and I was really finding the same sort of thing is that our work wasn't seen and that it was unbalanced in our relationships. So then I ended up building an invisible labor tracker, an app that allowed women to quantify that work in the hopes that it might be a source, that it could be one used for conversations with your partner, but also used to supplement your resume as you re-enter the workforce.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
5:08

But what the users of that app really told us and they were really blown away by this this was pre-pandemic, so this was before we were having this really robust conversation about the mental load and division of labor. But what they told us is that, yes, this data is interesting and important, but it's not. What we want is for our partners to share it with us. We want our partners to understand it fully and we want them to share the load. And so that took me into the realm of okay, well, we know the statistics, we know the social systems that contribute to this. How do we create behavioral change in relationships? And that led me to coaching. So now I kind of have taken all of those things and combined them the technology in the app and relationship coaching to create a system that really helps couples to get to where they want to be.

Teresa Hildebrand:
5:59

That was a long answer, no, no, that's perfect, and I think that we always find things that we would never think of doing because of the challenges that we face in our lives. Right, obviously nobody wants to go through a divorce, nobody wants to really suffer in certain areas of their lives, but sometimes that is a catalyst to something amazing, right? And you know yeah, there were a lot of things in there that I want to dive into but just so that we have kind of, like this foundation, what you're a relationship equity coach. Can you define that? What does that mean?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
6:43

Yeah, yeah, so the way I define it, and not a lot of people use that terminology. There are a lot of relationship coaches out there, but my focus is really on helping couples to create equal partnerships when they don't know how, and so that's where I bring that equity balance in. It's really about finding a strategy that works for the two of you, because every relationship is unique, but finding a place where it feels like your relationship is equal, it feels like your relationship is balanced, both of you feel heard and supported and your work is valued equally, and so that's really the niche of where I do my relationship coaching. So that's how it's like, differentiated from, you know, a regular relationship coach who would help you on a wide variety of things in your relationship.

Teresa Hildebrand:
7:34

I love that. Yeah, like you said, there's so many relationship coaches out there and the great thing is is that, well, relationships are very complex, right, you pick apart different areas to really hone in on. But can you tell me what is it that you can do if you find that there really isn't a balance in your relationship?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
8:01

Well, this is a very common scenario.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
8:04

I think the first thing that I usually recommend my clients do if they are feeling so the first thing is just identify what's happening.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
8:14

So if you are starting to feel resentment, more often than not like we're all going to be cranky, we're all going to be annoyed with our partners on occasion, but if resentment is becoming your norm, then that is a really good time to evaluate where that resentment is coming from.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
8:32

And many times it is coming from an unequal division of labor in the household, an unbalanced relationship. So if you see that you start to feel that resentment, the first thing to do is really identify it and then figure out where you are at this moment in time. It might be, you know, it might be doing a time study to really see how you're spending your time and you know what is happening in your household. So taking notes, using an app to keep track of your work and start to get the big picture of what's happening in your household so that you can evaluate If your partner is receptive. The ideal thing is to have them do that as well, so that you can compare and contrast and use it as not as a tool of like bullying or a tool to get one person one-upping.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
9:28

This is not a scorecard. I don't believe 50-50 is realistic or possible, but it's going to move back and forth. There are going to be certain things and skill sets that you bring in. If both of you can do it, great. If one of you does it, that's also fine. Then just start to see where do we stand in the grand scheme of things. How is our time being spent? If you're able to have a good conversation with your partner, that's a great place to start. If your partner isn't receptive, then there's lots of tools and techniques you can use to start to get them on the same page.

Teresa Hildebrand:
10:07

I want to get deeper into that a little bit later, but I do want to.

Teresa Hildebrand:
10:12

Well, first off, I love this idea of being able to track, because awareness is very important, but I think you also can't change what you don't measure If you don't know exactly what's going on. If it's just like right here in your head, writing it down and really tracking it can be super helpful. But I want to talk about you mentioned your background and the whole thing about gender roles, because there are different cultures and the way people grew up and how they perceive the way they show up as partners, as parents, as someone in a relationship. Do you find that there are still those gender biases where it's hey, the mom needs to take care of the well-being of the kids or anything related to the kids, but then you find that, well, maybe they're also working moms, or even if they're stay-at-home moms, that's a really hard job. Then the male in the relationship maybe is the breadwinner. So do you find in your profession that there is still that idea of this is the mom's job and this is the dad's job?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
11:38

Yeah, 100 percent. I cannot scream it from the rooftops loud enough. Those gender roles, really they exist and they are a part of our upbringing from the time that we it might even be from the time that our parents identify what gender we are. So this is a deep-seated issue that exists. I think that this is a perfect segue, because this is the second thing that I do with my clients. The first thing to do is identify yes, is this a problem or is this not a problem? Are we in an unbalanced relationship or not?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
12:21

If we are, then the next step is really to deconstruct those gender norms. The way that you do that is by observing your belief systems. So you're going to look at how are you raised, what was your family of origin like? What are the cultural messages that you're receiving about? Who should do what in the house? What does a good mom look like? What does a good dad look like? All of those things. So you're going to look at those belief systems and then I ask my clients to get really clear about whether that is true for them. Do they really believe that? Because they may, right, I practice a non-judgmental approach with all of my clients.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
13:05

So if you truly believe in traditional gender norms. That's fine, but make sure you're clear that it is your internal value-based belief system, not something that someone else forced upon you. So that's where we need to get really clear about those gender rules. Do I really believe that, as a woman, I am inherently a better caregiver? Do I really truly believe that? Because there is no biological evidence that that's true. The evidence is very clear that anyone can be a wonderful, loving caregiver if they're given the opportunity to practice.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
13:45

But sometimes, as women, we take that cultural messaging and it becomes part of our ego and part of our identity and so we identify as like, well, I'm super mom or the best mom ever and I can handle all the things. I can go to a board meeting and then I can go to a school board meeting and then I can volunteer in my kids classroom and I can bake for the bake sale and I can do all the things. But that is really not sustainable. So really evaluating, like, what about? This is true? Is there an opportunity for me to take a step back and allow my partner to step into that caregiving role? Give them, if you're in a heterosexual relationship, give them the space to practice, because that is ultimately what leads to more balance is offering that space.

Teresa Hildebrand:
14:36

Yeah, because it's not going to change from one day to another. Right, it's always a process, but I, you know the way that you talked about like your belief system, like your values. Right, it's like really defining that and what that means to you, right, because we all get that choice, we all get to define that and I love that. So, going back to like, how do you start this conversation? Right, so you've identified that. Okay, you're doing quite a bit. Right, there's, there's some imbalance there and you've been tracking. You're like, okay, I really need to communicate this with my partner. What's the best approach for that?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
15:16

So the best approach for that is to focus on the mutually beneficial future that exists when you create that balance. So it's very tempting, when you kind of your eyes become opened to this scenario, to go in and be like God darn it. You know, you don't. You don't do as much as I do and I'm really frustrated and you need to pick up the pace. And it's very easy to approach it from that way.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
15:50

There's a lot of anger and resentment and that anger and resentment is often justified and also that is not the best way to elicit behavioral change. Right, then your partner is going to feel defensive and they're going to put walls up and they're not going to really hear what you have to say. They're going to think about you know, defending their position and how hard they work as well and all the things. So if you can take the time to really get clear about the future and how beautiful it will be if you can create balance, I think that is a wonderful place to come from. We're a team. I love you. I want this to work. We can't keep going this way.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
16:32

If we do create change, look at the future we have ahead of us. We have, you know, the opportunity for you to participate fully in caring for our children and being a full you know human being and having space for your emotions. We have the opportunity for me to step up and, you know, follow my career goals and aspirations and grow our wealth. We have the opportunity to be more connected and have a better intimate life together. There's so much beauty that can come from a balanced relationship. So, starting with your why why it's important to you and what the future holds you can get there.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
17:08

It's a great place to start that conversation.

Teresa Hildebrand:
17:12

Yeah, and you know talking about how it's not invalidating your feelings if you approach it from this way. Right, Because you don't want your partner to feel like they're being attacked. Right, you don't want to point fingers because you're not going to get anywhere with that. But if you come with, you know, defining that vision that you want for your lives, and you know, coming at it with hey, like, if we keep going on this path, it's not going to be a very good outcome, right, but if we go this way and we start working together and it's a small step, right, you don't. You don't have to overhaul everything, right, you don't have to unload all of your, all of the things that you do to your partner. It's just taking that first step of communicating this, and I really do love this approach.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
18:03

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. I think you know, as with any big goal that you have in your life, the best way to get to that goal is to break it down into teeny, tiny little stations, because change is really hard. Our minds are, you know, kind of built to maintain the status quo, and so we have to work to make that motivation and then take action on that motivation. And the way to do that is by celebrating those small wins along the way. Yeah, yeah.

Teresa Hildebrand:
18:37

Yeah, yeah. So what happens if you do all this, like you have the best of intentions, right, but then you find that your partner really won't engage and they're not necessarily on board? How do you move forward from there?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
18:53

Well, this is the number one thing I get from women who come to me is that they either think that their partner won't engage or they've been told by their partner that this isn't really a thing.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
19:06

This is you know, this is really happening. So I actually I actually put together a little mini course that walks you through, step by step, how to do this, and we talked about the first step, which is getting clear on your why, articulating clearly. I talk about some really evidence based communication tools that you can use to engage with your partner in a way that they're more likely to be receptive, and then you know how to take action after that. So I think you know from, like, the big picture standpoint is To get very clear with what's important to you, what you want out of this exercise of creating balance in your relationship and then Using good communication tools to express that to your partner being open and receptive as they share their feelings back with you. And If you've done all that and you are still not making traction, it's probably a good idea to bring in a Professional to help you, a neutral third-party, to help guide you through that that process and see if you could make some traction.

Teresa Hildebrand:
20:17

Yeah, because I I mean, we all want to Expect that they'll welcome this new idea, right, if it's, if it's a new idea, you know with Open arms and, oh, this is great, let's do this right. But the reality is that you know, some will, you know, find that their partner is not going to be receptive to this and, like you said, like it's small steps, right doesn't mean okay, they're, they're never gonna be receptive to it. They're always going to, like, block you or be disengaged. It's just about okay. Well, what's the next right step? Or what's the next best step, right? So I love that that you do have that for For women who come to you or for someone who comes to you with that issue. Is there anything else we haven't talked about that you feel would really benefit the audience when it comes to this?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
21:15

Well, I mean, I think that really being resolved, in that You're right. If you feel like something's not right in your relationship, trust your instincts, trust your gut and Don't let your partner you know Try to convince you that this isn't a problem, because it will only become a bigger problem in time. I have, you know, experienced it myself. I've observed a lot of my clients and a lot of couples, and this problem does not resolve itself without intentional intervention. And so listen to your gut, trust your instincts and, you know, find whatever resources are available to you to help guide you on this journey of creating more balance in your relationship.

Teresa Hildebrand:
22:01

Yeah, and that you know something that came up for me when you were talking about how it can become worse. You know this can impact or it does impact every area of your life. So if you're a mom who is trying to grow a business, this will obviously, you know, cause issues with, like, your, your energy, your focus right, because if you are you're having trouble in your relationship with your partner, it's not going to be the same as if you know everything was great and there was, like, this balance. You know, when you're, when you're trying to do something else, like growing a business, or you know, like having a career, it's always going to be there that that hidden thing where it's just too much right and that can negatively impact you in so many different areas. So you know this is something if this is a problem for, for anyone listening out there, I think this is wonderful advice from Felicia to kind of like identify what's happening and you know what it is that you want to do, like what's that future you want to see and how do you work towards that, and you know what's the next step.

Teresa Hildebrand:
23:18

Right, it's, it's something really not something to you know, feel ashamed of, and it's not something to feel like. You know they're like my partner is not going to change right, just like we open to it and you know, just take that next step. So this was wonderful, felicia. I know that when we're listening, is going to want to learn more about what you do and you know more tips on how they can work through this. So if anyone wants to connect with you or learn more about what you do, how can they do that?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
23:51

Yeah, so you know I am on social media at tend task Instagram, tiktok, facebook and I also have a ton of resources on my website, which is tend task calm, and there's I write a weekly blog. You'll see access to those courses that I talked about and, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of resources there that people can, you know, check out and see if they can learn a little bit more about what I do and whether it would be helpful to them.

Teresa Hildebrand:
24:28

Yeah, and that's one thing we didn't talk about was tend tasks. So that's a great way to track right what, what is going on and how. That can help you in determining what the next step is and starting that conversation. And so we have this app that you can like actually literally track all the stuff that we're doing, right, because of course, that I mean that in and of itself could be something so freeing. Right, because we have, like you said, that invisible load, that mental load that can really weigh us down, and having to write it down can be something that can help us emotionally and mentally, right For sure.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
25:10

For sure. Yeah, absolutely. The links to download the app are there and and I highly recommend that if that works for you, if you're an app kind of person, if you are not, then you know, pen and paper will work, a Google spreadsheet will work. But the nice thing about the app that I developed is that it really does. It's it's it's all about both of you doing it together. It's about creating that sense of teamwork and creating, you know, kind of an envelope where everything exists so that one partner doesn't have to ask, hey, what, what's on the grocery list? Or hey, you know, how do I need to feed the animals? You know it's good to have it all in one place. So, yeah, I do highly recommend that.

Teresa Hildebrand:
25:56

I love that I'm. I'm all about tools and resources that will make our lives easier. I am all for that. Well, felicia, thank you so much for being here. This was super, super helpful. I know that people will want to check you out and I will share all of that information, all the links and everything in the show notes so you guys can go check her out. But again, thank you so much for being here, and do you have any encouraging words that you would want to end this episode with?

Felicia Kashevaroff:
26:25

I would love to I guess my words of encouragement would be to remind particularly women because that's your audience that are listening to the show that you deserve balance, you deserve to be supported in your hopes and dreams and your endeavors. I think as moms, we often, you know, put everyone else's needs above our own, but we deserve to have an equal partner and we deserve to have a family life and a professional life that nourishes us.

Teresa Hildebrand:
26:58

Absolutely. That is so, so, so encouraging and so true. Thank you so much. I hope you guys really enjoyed this episode. Again, I will link, or I will put all the links in the show notes for Felicia so you can go check her out. Thank you so much.

Felicia Kashevaroff:
27:16

Thanks, teresa, this was so fun.